Buying Spells

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:39 pm

Yet another stupid topic based on things I kinda liked about D&D3.+: feats that unlocked spell trees.

Granted, they only worked for Wizards the way they were laid out, but this was something I could kind of get behind: a group of spells with a shared theme at different power levels. You take the feat, and the feat is still relevant a couple levels later because you're still getting new spells automatically with each new spell level, until you run out of spells. It's basically similar to the Domains of clerics, except generally less structured and allowed multiple low-level options.

So how would it be if you had this as the default? You're a mage, you pick two areas with five spells each at level 1, and then you get some miscellaneous spells or spells based on your background/education/ethnicity/etc. And you get to pick new spell trees every couple of levels. Maybe you don't prepare each spell every day - you probably don't have enough memory/slots - but it's nice to have the option.

Josh_Kablack · Post by **Josh_Kablack** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:55 pm

Workable, and probably more flavorful and easier to track than the base 1-3rd paradigm of "pick anything from 12 pages of spells, then do it again for each spell level you have". You would get characters who shifted focus as in "I started out as a fire acolyte, but now I have mastered time spells" but even that's better memetic traction than having to explain "My spellbook has light, burning hands, scorching ray, flame arrow expeditious retreat and haste"

Gaining new spells from each tree while also gaining new trees is going to be multiplicative power advancement - so the opposition and other classes have to match that.

However I have to ask, if you're going with that sort of multi-themed caster advancement, then why stick to spell preparation at all? Why not go with something more like Tome Spheres or even a bastardization of 4e's at-will, encounter, daily system?

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:59 pm

How many feats were there like that? I can only think of the necromantic cyst series.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:08 pm

Spell trees work from a flavor perspective (Vancian magic) and an option-buying perspective.

Consider the potential options of the wizard versus the sorcerer. The sorcerer is more versatile from a tactical perspective, able to cast any spell he knows as long as he has slots for it. The wizard is more versatile from a strategic perspective, with a much wider range of spells to choose from but the requirement to "lock in" to a certain number of spells each day. Sorcerers, therefore, are severely handicapped if they invest in specialist spells; the spell tree concept hurts them because they have a limited repertoire and so they know how much it hurts to buy spells. Similar phenomenon with the psion.

Ideally you would maybe combine the two approaches - allow characters to buy into spell trees, and those spells are the ones that they can use at-will with no preparation; but the character can also prepare spells ahead of time, if they need a particular effect that is not in their area of focus.

The latter is kind of similiar to 4E's ritual system, but less restrictive and doesn't require a separate subsystem to work out; the at-will/encounter/daily system is even more restricted in number of effects with practically no utilitarian purposes and has no inherent setting basis, and I don't like it on principle.

RobbyPants · Post by **RobbyPants** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:14 pm

fectin wrote:How many feats were there like that? I can only think of the necromantic cyst series.

Also the one that grants you a domain worth of spells, but each 1/day, and you have to have a high enough Wis to cast them.

I'm totally drawing a blank on the name of the feat. Arcane Disciple?

fectin · Post by **fectin** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:21 pm

That's true. That one was ass-tastic though. I wanted it to be good, but it just... wasn't.

Ancient History · Post by **Ancient History** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:27 pm

There were a couple, sort of spread out. One on dream magic, one on Far Realm spells in Dragon, that sort of thing.

Ravengm · Post by **Ravengm** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:29 pm

Spheres worked a lot like this. I enjoyed those.

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:36 pm

Spheres take their influence from cleric domain spells. So feats to grant access to specific domains is also another way to do this.